I tried turmeric for a few months because I read that it reduced joint pain. It didn't help my pain, but it turned my nails so yellow, it looked like I had a 2 pack a day cigarette habit! And my iron level went from low to dangerously low. I've tried so many supplements and the only ones that seem to help my menopause symptoms are magnesium (helps with migraines and sleep) and my women's multi vitamin (seems to give me a little more energy, but who knows? I'm an easy touch for the placebo effect!) Your articles always remind me that I'm not crazy and people will always try and make money off of other people's pain. Thanks for the work you do!
Or creatine- the new “wonder” supplement. I’ve read it has the most researched data but that still doesnt tell us if it is safe or possibke side effects….?
Thank you for being courageous enough to call out other MD's who take advantage of women's vulnerabilities. MD's especially, should know better (and do know better). It's bad enough that wellness influencers with no training whatsoever promote dubious products but scammy MD's are the lowest of the low.
“I am so tired of inadequately tested products being foisted on women.”
Yes indeed.
The relationship of the human microbiome including gut and skin, is a relatively new and fascinating field. I look forward to the day that there are convincing data about taking supplements to improve brain health for example. Wouldn’t it be fabulous to find a relationship to gut flora composition and vasomotor symptoms in post menopausal women. The day that reliable data from large placebo controlled double blinded studies published in reputable medical/scientific journals will be the day that I storm the local Natural Grocers and Vitamin Shoppe for supplements. Until the data are available, a healthy diet and exercise are my means to good health.
I’m sorry if you feel attacked. I meant to point out that there is a broader point of view you might want to consider.
I did not provide you references or mention bone density.
I did share with you details of a particularly painful and debilitating illness
Sorry if you don’t like the term allopathy. Around the turn of the previous century, the American Medical Association used whatever means possible to discredit any other type of medicine but their own. Mainstream?
I am an MD also and I also practice evidence based medicine (EBM). However there are times when EBM doesn’t have the answers. Believe me when I tell you that that is a scary situation.
For me, liposomal curcumin has made a huge difference. I have normal liver function tests despite 3-4 years of daily use. I’m finally starting to see real improvements in other areas and am hopeful for a full recovery.
I get it that your deal is debunking scams and there are many! I read your work often and thought you might enjoy an exchange with a senior clinician and an experienced curcumin taker. I guess I was hoping for a thoughtful and considered reply
One of the largest components of CAM therapies seems to weigh heavily on the placebo effect. Yet unfortunately many of the proposed supplemental therapies involve ingestion. It stuns me how desperate people are to receive potential benefit that they will grab any product from the shelf, in hopes of being aligned to relief. With no concern for heavy metals, toxins, poisons, or if the product even has what the label insists it does.
A physician has ethical obligations, and the American Medical Association (AMA) has an opinion about this practice. According to the AMA on the subject of the Sale of Health-Related Products, they state the following:
“Physicians who choose to sell health-related products from their offices or through their office website or other online venues have ethical obligations to:
(A) Offer only products whose claims of benefit are based on peer-reviewed literature or other sources of scientific review of efficacy that are unbiased, sound, systematic, and reliable. Physicians should not offer products whose claims to benefit lack scientific validity.
(B) Address conflict of interest and possible exploitation of patients by:
(I) fully disclosing the nature of their financial interest in the sale of the product(s), either in person or through written notification, and informing patients of the availability of the product or other equivalent products elsewhere;
(II) limiting sales to products that serve immediate and pressing needs of their patients (e.g., to avoid requiring a patient on crutches to travel to a local pharmacy to purchase the product). Distributing products free of charge or at cost makes products readily available and helps to eliminate the elements of personal gain and financial conflict of interest that may interfere, or appear to interfere with the physician’s independent medical judgment.
(C) Provide information about the risks, benefits, and limits of scientific knowledge regarding the products in language that is understandable to patients.
Dr. Marie Haver, I’d like to hope is well-meaning, but after subjecting myself to review her YouTube channel & watch some of her TikTok’s (I abhor social media, so it was truly taxing😂), I was absolutely blown away by her rapid-fire insistence of women in menopause transition of all of the supplements they NEED, the daily regimens from supplements to nutrition and through to exercise. Okay lady, I get it, you are ALSO menopausal. Yet we each are individuals & what applies to one does not necessarily apply to another. Her tone is condescending, and her behavior of rapid-firing what supplements are essential to continuing to prevent bone-loss, and her biggest promoted issue the dreaded belly fat (this is a BIG one for her)… well she lost me after a few clicks on various videos/shorts. The moment she wrapped with pushing her business, her website, her plan, her book, and ALL of her products… I was out. This lady doesn’t put up red-flags for me, it is more like a wildfire. I walked away from the experience (although it seemed more like torture) realizing that what was MOST evident to me, was her ravenous hunger to get to your dollar.
I’m really glad that you wrote this piece Doc, especially for those in this menoverse who are navigating the nuances of care.
Thanks for this piece - supplements are such a distraction from where we could all better benefit - the joyous food on our plates. And when we eat real food the substances within it work like an orchestra together to nourish us as nature intended. I never understood this mad (and like you say unevidenced) notion of sucking one plant chemical out of a plant and blasting it at us. Would we take ethanol out of alcohol and expect that to be better for us than a gin and tonic where the alcohol is part of a wide mix of substances. Anyway thanks for highlighting the potential dangers of these supplements and the lack of research.
I’m suffering from mold toxicity after several years of exposure before it was detected. I am an MD myself and a veteran of having problems the mainstream medical community doesn’t recognize/understand/know how to treat. This status was never my choice but here I am. One of the main symptoms I experienced from the mold exposure was joint pain. Plaquenil didn’t help at all and by the way, and can cause severe vision damage and liver damage. Desperate for relief, I tried a liposomal curcumin product by Dr Amy Myers. This product, taken according to packsge directions, has been the difference between being able to continue to work and not. I recently proved its efficacy to myself by forgetting it when traveling. Three days into my trip and I was miserable. Fortunately my husband arrived later and brought it along. Relief again after two doses.
I have also found another liposomal curcumin product by Natural Factors that is also somewhat effective.
What concerns me about your article is that like strict adherents to allopathic medicine, you delight in focusing on products that for whatever reason, have not been subjected to RCT’s. We all know that big pharma rules allopathy and isn’t interested in funding research designed to provide the kind of data you demand on products that are natural, cultural or inexpensive to supply.
There are too many ailments that particularly affect women for which we do not have adequate treatments. I’d like to see you challenge the bigger problems in medicine and the inequities for women rather than offer your latest hit piece on some controversial topic or treatment. You write well and you do your research but your scope is limited. I challenge you to acknowledge the limitations of allopathic or mainstream medicine and write about areas in which medicines for women are inadequate and under researched.
Let's start with the correct terminology. I am a medical doctor; I practice evidence-based medicine. I believe people deserve evidence. The term "allopathic medicine" is from Samuel Hahnemann, the inventor of homeopathy, meaning it was coined by a scam artist. Hahnemann came up with the term to distinguish homeopathy from medicine. The term was intended to be derogatory. So let's not start with you insulting me, okay?
I believe women deserve facts; if you don't and prefer a more religious type of medicine (meaning one grounded in beliefs, not science), that is your prerogative.
This is not a hit piece. However, your ad hominem attack on me only shows that you couldn't find any actual fault with the piece. I believe it is gross for a medical doctor to have a large social media platform and to use that platform to promote turmeric for bone density when the references you provide don't even back up the claim. Maybe you are new here, but I have been calling out scams since 2010.
Don't get mad at me because the product you have chosen to take is under-researched and associated with liver failure; maybe get mad at the company that sells it without the quality data we expect from pharmaceuticals.
Lamen butting in here… Perhaps you, Dr. Craig, might want to approach the “bigger problems in medicine and the inequities for women”? Rather than task a fellow, or offer your “challenge” to the work Dr. Gunter is and has been doing for us women.
Prior to Dr. Gunter’s help, I was drowning in symptoms. Unable to place my finger on why nearly all of my organ systems were suddenly simultaneously under attack. As if my body was entirely breaking in synchronicity. Had it not have been for her book “The Menopause Manifesto” I would have been making rounds between a gastroenterologist, a cardiologist, an endocrinologist, a dermatologist, an ophthalmologist and neurologist (because honestly I didn’t realize that my heart, GI tract, brain, eyes, skin and endocrine could ALL be under assault from one missing link). It NEVER would have dawned on me independently, that these sudden drastic shifts (despite building up in pre/peri) would all have a causal link to the end of my fertile window.
Dr. Gunter’s work, aim & mission continues to help women. Period. She does not exploit her audience, cashing in on their symptoms & suffering. Sadly so many in the menopause gold rush do. Sure she should get paid for writing books, for touring, speaking engagements and conferences… but she is NOT targeting women at a time when they are feeling incredibly raw, completely lost and being dismissed in most every direction they turn within the biomedical community.
I didn't know that curcumin was being touted for menopause till you wrote about it. I had however, read a double blind study using a particular (named) product that showed cognitive benefits. Since both my parents had dementia, I started taking it. I can't say whether it's doing anything for my brain (can't be my own control on something like that), but it did lower my A1c (no other changes in my life, such as diet. etc.); my endocrinologist told me to keep taking it.
I went to my new GP a few months ago because I was experiencing hip pain that had gotten increasingly worse and radiated down to my knee. (Walking, resting, stretching, ice, and heat- none of these helped.) She ordered an X-ray and “prescribed” TURMERIC! The x-ray showed mild degenerative bone changes. The doctor then told me to slather Voltaren all over my inner hip/groin area. I pushed for a referral to an orthopedist. Turns out I have an extensive labrum tear and may require surgery. Undoubtedly, I also require a new GP.
Thank you so much for this. I have very low iron and had no idea the turmeric supplements I was merrily knocking back might be making it worse.
Is there anything - anything at all - that has been shown to help with menopause joint issues? Apart from HRT. My mum has terrible hip pain and mobility issues. I am just starting to get hip pain which is starting to affect me exercising — am desperate to try anything that would help.
Another informative and well-researched piece of writing! Symptoms of menopause can suck but people who prey on those suffering with untested, potentially harmful products which makes them a lot of money suck even more. The line; "If you are taking a turmeric/curcumin supplement that doesn’t have something to enhance absorption, you are likely just paying for expensive feces" also made me laugh.
Grateful as always for your truth-warrior clarity and your tenacious advocacy for women. Any thoughts on using organic turmeric in smoothies or golden milk? Would the same caveats apply? Is it best not to ingest in any form other than occasional seasoning?
Everything here pertains to supplements. I don't think that organic offers anything safe or healthy. Usually what people consume with eating is much less than with supplements. Also, turmeric is poorly absorbed, and the health risks seem related to the products designed to enhance absorption. The biggest issue with turmeric for cooking is making sure it's not adulterated with lead, especially if it's a daily intake. Consumer reports or Consumer labs might be able to help there.
I sent this to my cousin who is very much influenced by Rhonda Patrick who has a degree in biomedical science I believe, and a huge audience. I did a little research on my own and *think* she’s honestly trying to help people with her recommendations for supplements. Having said that, I uncovered some very disgruntled GI researchers who were quite upset that she was promoting supplements for gut health before their own rigorous research had clarified whether the supplement in question was actually effective. But nevertheless, chick-ching for « Supplements Inc ». I’m posting this as a response to your very important complaint that women are being exploited as consumers of low-quality science.
I tried turmeric for a few months because I read that it reduced joint pain. It didn't help my pain, but it turned my nails so yellow, it looked like I had a 2 pack a day cigarette habit! And my iron level went from low to dangerously low. I've tried so many supplements and the only ones that seem to help my menopause symptoms are magnesium (helps with migraines and sleep) and my women's multi vitamin (seems to give me a little more energy, but who knows? I'm an easy touch for the placebo effect!) Your articles always remind me that I'm not crazy and people will always try and make money off of other people's pain. Thanks for the work you do!
Another fantastic article! Would love to see one about collagen and the claim about increasing bone density in post menopausal women.
Or creatine- the new “wonder” supplement. I’ve read it has the most researched data but that still doesnt tell us if it is safe or possibke side effects….?
Thank you for being courageous enough to call out other MD's who take advantage of women's vulnerabilities. MD's especially, should know better (and do know better). It's bad enough that wellness influencers with no training whatsoever promote dubious products but scammy MD's are the lowest of the low.
Wow. Well said.
“I am so tired of inadequately tested products being foisted on women.”
Yes indeed.
The relationship of the human microbiome including gut and skin, is a relatively new and fascinating field. I look forward to the day that there are convincing data about taking supplements to improve brain health for example. Wouldn’t it be fabulous to find a relationship to gut flora composition and vasomotor symptoms in post menopausal women. The day that reliable data from large placebo controlled double blinded studies published in reputable medical/scientific journals will be the day that I storm the local Natural Grocers and Vitamin Shoppe for supplements. Until the data are available, a healthy diet and exercise are my means to good health.
I’m sorry if you feel attacked. I meant to point out that there is a broader point of view you might want to consider.
I did not provide you references or mention bone density.
I did share with you details of a particularly painful and debilitating illness
Sorry if you don’t like the term allopathy. Around the turn of the previous century, the American Medical Association used whatever means possible to discredit any other type of medicine but their own. Mainstream?
I am an MD also and I also practice evidence based medicine (EBM). However there are times when EBM doesn’t have the answers. Believe me when I tell you that that is a scary situation.
For me, liposomal curcumin has made a huge difference. I have normal liver function tests despite 3-4 years of daily use. I’m finally starting to see real improvements in other areas and am hopeful for a full recovery.
I get it that your deal is debunking scams and there are many! I read your work often and thought you might enjoy an exchange with a senior clinician and an experienced curcumin taker. I guess I was hoping for a thoughtful and considered reply
Anecdotes are not evidence.
One of the largest components of CAM therapies seems to weigh heavily on the placebo effect. Yet unfortunately many of the proposed supplemental therapies involve ingestion. It stuns me how desperate people are to receive potential benefit that they will grab any product from the shelf, in hopes of being aligned to relief. With no concern for heavy metals, toxins, poisons, or if the product even has what the label insists it does.
A physician has ethical obligations, and the American Medical Association (AMA) has an opinion about this practice. According to the AMA on the subject of the Sale of Health-Related Products, they state the following:
“Physicians who choose to sell health-related products from their offices or through their office website or other online venues have ethical obligations to:
(A) Offer only products whose claims of benefit are based on peer-reviewed literature or other sources of scientific review of efficacy that are unbiased, sound, systematic, and reliable. Physicians should not offer products whose claims to benefit lack scientific validity.
(B) Address conflict of interest and possible exploitation of patients by:
(I) fully disclosing the nature of their financial interest in the sale of the product(s), either in person or through written notification, and informing patients of the availability of the product or other equivalent products elsewhere;
(II) limiting sales to products that serve immediate and pressing needs of their patients (e.g., to avoid requiring a patient on crutches to travel to a local pharmacy to purchase the product). Distributing products free of charge or at cost makes products readily available and helps to eliminate the elements of personal gain and financial conflict of interest that may interfere, or appear to interfere with the physician’s independent medical judgment.
(C) Provide information about the risks, benefits, and limits of scientific knowledge regarding the products in language that is understandable to patients.
(D) Avoid exclusive distributorship arrangements that make the products available only through physician offices. Physicians should encourage manufacturers to make products widely accessible to patients.” https://code-medical-ethics.ama-assn.org/ethics-opinions/sale-health-related-products
Dr. Marie Haver, I’d like to hope is well-meaning, but after subjecting myself to review her YouTube channel & watch some of her TikTok’s (I abhor social media, so it was truly taxing😂), I was absolutely blown away by her rapid-fire insistence of women in menopause transition of all of the supplements they NEED, the daily regimens from supplements to nutrition and through to exercise. Okay lady, I get it, you are ALSO menopausal. Yet we each are individuals & what applies to one does not necessarily apply to another. Her tone is condescending, and her behavior of rapid-firing what supplements are essential to continuing to prevent bone-loss, and her biggest promoted issue the dreaded belly fat (this is a BIG one for her)… well she lost me after a few clicks on various videos/shorts. The moment she wrapped with pushing her business, her website, her plan, her book, and ALL of her products… I was out. This lady doesn’t put up red-flags for me, it is more like a wildfire. I walked away from the experience (although it seemed more like torture) realizing that what was MOST evident to me, was her ravenous hunger to get to your dollar.
I’m really glad that you wrote this piece Doc, especially for those in this menoverse who are navigating the nuances of care.
Thanks for this piece - supplements are such a distraction from where we could all better benefit - the joyous food on our plates. And when we eat real food the substances within it work like an orchestra together to nourish us as nature intended. I never understood this mad (and like you say unevidenced) notion of sucking one plant chemical out of a plant and blasting it at us. Would we take ethanol out of alcohol and expect that to be better for us than a gin and tonic where the alcohol is part of a wide mix of substances. Anyway thanks for highlighting the potential dangers of these supplements and the lack of research.
I’m suffering from mold toxicity after several years of exposure before it was detected. I am an MD myself and a veteran of having problems the mainstream medical community doesn’t recognize/understand/know how to treat. This status was never my choice but here I am. One of the main symptoms I experienced from the mold exposure was joint pain. Plaquenil didn’t help at all and by the way, and can cause severe vision damage and liver damage. Desperate for relief, I tried a liposomal curcumin product by Dr Amy Myers. This product, taken according to packsge directions, has been the difference between being able to continue to work and not. I recently proved its efficacy to myself by forgetting it when traveling. Three days into my trip and I was miserable. Fortunately my husband arrived later and brought it along. Relief again after two doses.
I have also found another liposomal curcumin product by Natural Factors that is also somewhat effective.
What concerns me about your article is that like strict adherents to allopathic medicine, you delight in focusing on products that for whatever reason, have not been subjected to RCT’s. We all know that big pharma rules allopathy and isn’t interested in funding research designed to provide the kind of data you demand on products that are natural, cultural or inexpensive to supply.
There are too many ailments that particularly affect women for which we do not have adequate treatments. I’d like to see you challenge the bigger problems in medicine and the inequities for women rather than offer your latest hit piece on some controversial topic or treatment. You write well and you do your research but your scope is limited. I challenge you to acknowledge the limitations of allopathic or mainstream medicine and write about areas in which medicines for women are inadequate and under researched.
Let's start with the correct terminology. I am a medical doctor; I practice evidence-based medicine. I believe people deserve evidence. The term "allopathic medicine" is from Samuel Hahnemann, the inventor of homeopathy, meaning it was coined by a scam artist. Hahnemann came up with the term to distinguish homeopathy from medicine. The term was intended to be derogatory. So let's not start with you insulting me, okay?
I believe women deserve facts; if you don't and prefer a more religious type of medicine (meaning one grounded in beliefs, not science), that is your prerogative.
This is not a hit piece. However, your ad hominem attack on me only shows that you couldn't find any actual fault with the piece. I believe it is gross for a medical doctor to have a large social media platform and to use that platform to promote turmeric for bone density when the references you provide don't even back up the claim. Maybe you are new here, but I have been calling out scams since 2010.
Don't get mad at me because the product you have chosen to take is under-researched and associated with liver failure; maybe get mad at the company that sells it without the quality data we expect from pharmaceuticals.
Lamen butting in here… Perhaps you, Dr. Craig, might want to approach the “bigger problems in medicine and the inequities for women”? Rather than task a fellow, or offer your “challenge” to the work Dr. Gunter is and has been doing for us women.
Prior to Dr. Gunter’s help, I was drowning in symptoms. Unable to place my finger on why nearly all of my organ systems were suddenly simultaneously under attack. As if my body was entirely breaking in synchronicity. Had it not have been for her book “The Menopause Manifesto” I would have been making rounds between a gastroenterologist, a cardiologist, an endocrinologist, a dermatologist, an ophthalmologist and neurologist (because honestly I didn’t realize that my heart, GI tract, brain, eyes, skin and endocrine could ALL be under assault from one missing link). It NEVER would have dawned on me independently, that these sudden drastic shifts (despite building up in pre/peri) would all have a causal link to the end of my fertile window.
Dr. Gunter’s work, aim & mission continues to help women. Period. She does not exploit her audience, cashing in on their symptoms & suffering. Sadly so many in the menopause gold rush do. Sure she should get paid for writing books, for touring, speaking engagements and conferences… but she is NOT targeting women at a time when they are feeling incredibly raw, completely lost and being dismissed in most every direction they turn within the biomedical community.
I didn't know that curcumin was being touted for menopause till you wrote about it. I had however, read a double blind study using a particular (named) product that showed cognitive benefits. Since both my parents had dementia, I started taking it. I can't say whether it's doing anything for my brain (can't be my own control on something like that), but it did lower my A1c (no other changes in my life, such as diet. etc.); my endocrinologist told me to keep taking it.
I went to my new GP a few months ago because I was experiencing hip pain that had gotten increasingly worse and radiated down to my knee. (Walking, resting, stretching, ice, and heat- none of these helped.) She ordered an X-ray and “prescribed” TURMERIC! The x-ray showed mild degenerative bone changes. The doctor then told me to slather Voltaren all over my inner hip/groin area. I pushed for a referral to an orthopedist. Turns out I have an extensive labrum tear and may require surgery. Undoubtedly, I also require a new GP.
Thank you so much for this. I have very low iron and had no idea the turmeric supplements I was merrily knocking back might be making it worse.
Is there anything - anything at all - that has been shown to help with menopause joint issues? Apart from HRT. My mum has terrible hip pain and mobility issues. I am just starting to get hip pain which is starting to affect me exercising — am desperate to try anything that would help.
For those interested This Podcast Will Kill you just did an episode on supplements.
Another informative and well-researched piece of writing! Symptoms of menopause can suck but people who prey on those suffering with untested, potentially harmful products which makes them a lot of money suck even more. The line; "If you are taking a turmeric/curcumin supplement that doesn’t have something to enhance absorption, you are likely just paying for expensive feces" also made me laugh.
Grateful as always for your truth-warrior clarity and your tenacious advocacy for women. Any thoughts on using organic turmeric in smoothies or golden milk? Would the same caveats apply? Is it best not to ingest in any form other than occasional seasoning?
Everything here pertains to supplements. I don't think that organic offers anything safe or healthy. Usually what people consume with eating is much less than with supplements. Also, turmeric is poorly absorbed, and the health risks seem related to the products designed to enhance absorption. The biggest issue with turmeric for cooking is making sure it's not adulterated with lead, especially if it's a daily intake. Consumer reports or Consumer labs might be able to help there.
Fabulous information! I am so appreciative!
I sent this to my cousin who is very much influenced by Rhonda Patrick who has a degree in biomedical science I believe, and a huge audience. I did a little research on my own and *think* she’s honestly trying to help people with her recommendations for supplements. Having said that, I uncovered some very disgruntled GI researchers who were quite upset that she was promoting supplements for gut health before their own rigorous research had clarified whether the supplement in question was actually effective. But nevertheless, chick-ching for « Supplements Inc ». I’m posting this as a response to your very important complaint that women are being exploited as consumers of low-quality science.